Christianity and the Homosexual Marriage debate
With a title like that, I am really off to a controversial start, especially when I tend to find a way to disagree with everybody. Things you don't talk about at the dinner table are politics and religion because they are things that people feel deeply about. Here they intertwine. There is a huge debate on this topic and whether or not homosexual marriage should be legal and recognized. It's been going on for years and will probably go on for years. I sure hope not. Why? Because
I'm TIRED of it.
I am tired of seeing Christians get outraged at this ONE sin. I am tired of Christians being made to look like fools because someone decided that homosexuals are ruining this country. I guess a lot of homosexuals ARE democrats, and democrats are ruining this country (sarcasm). Homosexuals are sinning and sin is ruining this country, but their ONE sin is not what is ruining this country. I found a video on Facebook today and shared it on my timeline. This guy says it a lot better than I can, so here is a video called Christians and Homosexuality.
I have to start by saying that Homosexual behavior is sinful. Multiple verses in the Bible tell us that. I believe it falls under the category of sexual sin that includes lust, extra-marital sex, and any other way that one can sin sexually. Homosexual behavior is also listed among MANY other sins like theft, adultry, murder, greed, malice, deceit, arrogance, foolishness and so on. ARROGANCE IS LISTED ON THE SAME LINE AS GAY SEX (Mark 7:20-23). I hear a lot of arrogant people talk about homosexuality.
"You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."(Matt 7:5)
So, why do we find Homosexuality SO offensive? I believe this stems from a fear that our way of life is threatened. We see that with homosexuals getting married, they might start adopting children. We might have to explain why someone has two moms. We might run into them. Also, that's a family that has totally rejected God. They cannot be a Christian, so you want to avoid them at all costs (instead of caring for their souls). Instead we should love the homosexual and speak to him/her with all the love and tenderness that the Bible commands. We aren't to love our neighbor as ourselves if he is a Christian or shares the same political views as us. The Bible says in Mark 12:28ff that we are to love our neighbor as ourselves.
What does love mean? It doesn't mean that we approve of your lifestyle. It doesn't mean that we have to like everything they do. But it does mean that you don't play Satan and keep reminding them of their sin. It means you don't shame them into repentance. It means you support them (not what they do) even when they are wrong. It means you treat them kindly. It means all of those things that you read about in I Corinthians 13. Reflect on yourself and see if this is how you have treated others who live in sin. Are you the one who will stand on the street corner accusing everyone who passes as a sinner, or are you the one who would see a sinner and have pity on them and love them? You don't have to be as radical as Westboro Baptist Church to be hateful or spiteful. When you are angry, you normally don't speak in love. Jesus got angry in the temple, so you think you can act the same way. You have done nothing to these people to let them know you love them like Jesus had. Convicting a person of sin is not a starting point for conversion. You are not God. Let him be the judge. All we can do is show what a Christian should be, try to speak in love, and hope that they come to Christ. Your spiteful attitude isn't helping, and Christianity is losing ground on account of your actions.
So, how does this involve the law?
Do you believe that we can use the law to force people not to sin? We cannot use the law to MAKE people be Christians. The Government's job is to decide Civil issues, not moral issues. Leave the moral issues to God. When I say it like that, you agree, but when homosexual marriage is brought up, you suddenly change your mind. Why? Why are alcohol, tobacco, premarital sex, using profanity any different? Moreover, why do you think that the Government should be a theocracy? What Biblical authority is there for imposing Christianity on all people within a government? You don't have it.
Romans 13:1-7 says:
"Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience."
So, we should be subject to those who have rule over us. We should never resist. This was said at a time when just about everything was legal EXCEPT Christianity. Drugs, prostitution, homosexuality, all of it. This was also during a time when people did riot and protest. If you had an issue with something that the government did, you would resist like the Zealots did during the time of Jesus. This is not unlike what we do today, except we're only violent verbally. Should we be the ones protesting and holding up signs in the name of Jesus? Jesus does not condone that behavior, nor does he say that we should argue and get involved in worldly issues. In fact, when God's law said that a woman be stoned, he took a more liberal view and spared her (John 8:3ff). NOTE: Romans executed by crucifixion. This was a Jewish mob and by what I read, Jewish executions by stoning were illegal in the Roman empire. They were not allowed to doll out capital punishment. Either way, this woman was spared. He told her to go and sin no more. He first showed love, then mercy, then told her how to go about her business. Point is, show love first.
ANYWAYS...
For us, Christians, we see marriage as a holy sacrament that unites two as one person. For someone to step on that and want to do something unholy with it seems like a big slap in the face to God.
For Atheists, they see marriage as secular and way for government to recognize their relationship. It also means tax benefits and you know the rest. They really don't care about the holy sacrament part (for the most part). They just want the right to have a wedding ceremony, and the government recognition that goes along with it. It is a cultural thing that has a lot of nuances and they want to participate like everyone else.
My stance and what I think the Christian stance should be on marriage (gay or straight), is that the Government should have NOTHING to say about marriage one way or another. That is God's territory. This isn't a thought original to me. It is a thought shared by many Libertarians like myself. This is really the first Libertarian thought that I heard and thought "wow that really makes sense." Then began the investigation. Right now we have a tax on marriage. I have to PAY THE GOVERNMENT to get married. Then I have to PAY THE GOVERNMENT to get my wife's name changed. From a strictly tax standpoint, let homosexuals pay the tax we do. Otherwise, let's not make anyone pay marriage taxes for something government shouldn't have anything to do with. That being the case, that would mean homosexuals would be able to marry as long as they had a priest that would do it. Priests shouldn't be forced to do it if they don't want to. But if someone wants to sin, they have the free will to do so.
Christianity should not be something that is legislated. We should not have laws that compel someone to follow Christian ordinances. Instead we should let people come to Jesus on their own free will.
John 14.
5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we do not know where you are going. How can we know the way?” 6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you had known me, you would have known my Father also.[d] From now on you do know him and have seen him... 15 If you love me, keep my commandments”
We come to Christ. Christ is not forced upon Christians. If you love him, you will keep his commandments He wants your heart, not your compliance. He doesn't want you to keep his commandments, then you'll love him. We must be in the business of winning hearts, not coercing people to mere compliance. Homosexual marriage being illegal is not going to make a single homosexual change his mind about Christ. Arguing that it is sin with atheists is not going to make a single atheist to accept Christ, especially when done with the attitude that I have seen from everyone around me. Instead let's dwell on the stuff that matters, and what the Government says is or isn't legal is not what matters. We will still be Christians. So, if you cannot agree that we should not legislate Christianity, please discuss these matters carefully and with respect and love. There really isn't much that turns away more people than the way that Christians behave when discussing this topic. I know I'm being critical of the church here, but I hope you know that it is in love for the church and a want to see it grow.
Thank you for reading!
Jeff Griffith
So I'm not plagiarizing, I did look at this a little... http://thelouisianalibertarian.blogspot.com/2012/08/a-christian-libertarians-view-of-gay.html .
I'm TIRED of it.
I am tired of seeing Christians get outraged at this ONE sin. I am tired of Christians being made to look like fools because someone decided that homosexuals are ruining this country. I guess a lot of homosexuals ARE democrats, and democrats are ruining this country (sarcasm). Homosexuals are sinning and sin is ruining this country, but their ONE sin is not what is ruining this country. I found a video on Facebook today and shared it on my timeline. This guy says it a lot better than I can, so here is a video called Christians and Homosexuality.
I have to start by saying that Homosexual behavior is sinful. Multiple verses in the Bible tell us that. I believe it falls under the category of sexual sin that includes lust, extra-marital sex, and any other way that one can sin sexually. Homosexual behavior is also listed among MANY other sins like theft, adultry, murder, greed, malice, deceit, arrogance, foolishness and so on. ARROGANCE IS LISTED ON THE SAME LINE AS GAY SEX (Mark 7:20-23). I hear a lot of arrogant people talk about homosexuality.
"You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."(Matt 7:5)
So, why do we find Homosexuality SO offensive? I believe this stems from a fear that our way of life is threatened. We see that with homosexuals getting married, they might start adopting children. We might have to explain why someone has two moms. We might run into them. Also, that's a family that has totally rejected God. They cannot be a Christian, so you want to avoid them at all costs (instead of caring for their souls). Instead we should love the homosexual and speak to him/her with all the love and tenderness that the Bible commands. We aren't to love our neighbor as ourselves if he is a Christian or shares the same political views as us. The Bible says in Mark 12:28ff that we are to love our neighbor as ourselves.
What does love mean? It doesn't mean that we approve of your lifestyle. It doesn't mean that we have to like everything they do. But it does mean that you don't play Satan and keep reminding them of their sin. It means you don't shame them into repentance. It means you support them (not what they do) even when they are wrong. It means you treat them kindly. It means all of those things that you read about in I Corinthians 13. Reflect on yourself and see if this is how you have treated others who live in sin. Are you the one who will stand on the street corner accusing everyone who passes as a sinner, or are you the one who would see a sinner and have pity on them and love them? You don't have to be as radical as Westboro Baptist Church to be hateful or spiteful. When you are angry, you normally don't speak in love. Jesus got angry in the temple, so you think you can act the same way. You have done nothing to these people to let them know you love them like Jesus had. Convicting a person of sin is not a starting point for conversion. You are not God. Let him be the judge. All we can do is show what a Christian should be, try to speak in love, and hope that they come to Christ. Your spiteful attitude isn't helping, and Christianity is losing ground on account of your actions.
So, how does this involve the law?
Do you believe that we can use the law to force people not to sin? We cannot use the law to MAKE people be Christians. The Government's job is to decide Civil issues, not moral issues. Leave the moral issues to God. When I say it like that, you agree, but when homosexual marriage is brought up, you suddenly change your mind. Why? Why are alcohol, tobacco, premarital sex, using profanity any different? Moreover, why do you think that the Government should be a theocracy? What Biblical authority is there for imposing Christianity on all people within a government? You don't have it.
Romans 13:1-7 says:
"Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience."
So, we should be subject to those who have rule over us. We should never resist. This was said at a time when just about everything was legal EXCEPT Christianity. Drugs, prostitution, homosexuality, all of it. This was also during a time when people did riot and protest. If you had an issue with something that the government did, you would resist like the Zealots did during the time of Jesus. This is not unlike what we do today, except we're only violent verbally. Should we be the ones protesting and holding up signs in the name of Jesus? Jesus does not condone that behavior, nor does he say that we should argue and get involved in worldly issues. In fact, when God's law said that a woman be stoned, he took a more liberal view and spared her (John 8:3ff). NOTE: Romans executed by crucifixion. This was a Jewish mob and by what I read, Jewish executions by stoning were illegal in the Roman empire. They were not allowed to doll out capital punishment. Either way, this woman was spared. He told her to go and sin no more. He first showed love, then mercy, then told her how to go about her business. Point is, show love first.
ANYWAYS...
For us, Christians, we see marriage as a holy sacrament that unites two as one person. For someone to step on that and want to do something unholy with it seems like a big slap in the face to God.
For Atheists, they see marriage as secular and way for government to recognize their relationship. It also means tax benefits and you know the rest. They really don't care about the holy sacrament part (for the most part). They just want the right to have a wedding ceremony, and the government recognition that goes along with it. It is a cultural thing that has a lot of nuances and they want to participate like everyone else.
My stance and what I think the Christian stance should be on marriage (gay or straight), is that the Government should have NOTHING to say about marriage one way or another. That is God's territory. This isn't a thought original to me. It is a thought shared by many Libertarians like myself. This is really the first Libertarian thought that I heard and thought "wow that really makes sense." Then began the investigation. Right now we have a tax on marriage. I have to PAY THE GOVERNMENT to get married. Then I have to PAY THE GOVERNMENT to get my wife's name changed. From a strictly tax standpoint, let homosexuals pay the tax we do. Otherwise, let's not make anyone pay marriage taxes for something government shouldn't have anything to do with. That being the case, that would mean homosexuals would be able to marry as long as they had a priest that would do it. Priests shouldn't be forced to do it if they don't want to. But if someone wants to sin, they have the free will to do so.
Christianity should not be something that is legislated. We should not have laws that compel someone to follow Christian ordinances. Instead we should let people come to Jesus on their own free will.
John 14.
5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we do not know where you are going. How can we know the way?” 6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you had known me, you would have known my Father also.[d] From now on you do know him and have seen him... 15 If you love me, keep my commandments”
We come to Christ. Christ is not forced upon Christians. If you love him, you will keep his commandments He wants your heart, not your compliance. He doesn't want you to keep his commandments, then you'll love him. We must be in the business of winning hearts, not coercing people to mere compliance. Homosexual marriage being illegal is not going to make a single homosexual change his mind about Christ. Arguing that it is sin with atheists is not going to make a single atheist to accept Christ, especially when done with the attitude that I have seen from everyone around me. Instead let's dwell on the stuff that matters, and what the Government says is or isn't legal is not what matters. We will still be Christians. So, if you cannot agree that we should not legislate Christianity, please discuss these matters carefully and with respect and love. There really isn't much that turns away more people than the way that Christians behave when discussing this topic. I know I'm being critical of the church here, but I hope you know that it is in love for the church and a want to see it grow.
Thank you for reading!
Jeff Griffith
So I'm not plagiarizing, I did look at this a little... http://thelouisianalibertarian.blogspot.com/2012/08/a-christian-libertarians-view-of-gay.html .
What you or I think is irrelevant, God recognizes marriages and created the institution. He instituted marriage between a man and a woman. What state, local, or national governments decide to do matters little.
ReplyDeleteThat's kinda my point. Whatever they do doesn't matter. We just have to be the best christians we can be and spread the word. We aren't going to make a difference if we stay stuck the way we have been.
DeleteOne nit: in the USA, we (the citizens) ARE the government, and the "government" only governs by the consent of the governed. (Or at least, that's the way it's *supposed* to be.) So really, in the USA, resistance has its place.
ReplyDeleteBut other than that, I believe you're pretty much spot-on.
Thanks Kevin! We have a place for resistance I suppose, but not the way we are doing it like our constant ranting and raving about how the government is out to get us and the president is an idiot.
Delete